Agenda and minutes

Due to apologies being received from both the Chair and Vice Chair, the Committee’s first order of business was to appoint a Chair for the meeting. A nomination was put forwarded, which was seconded and:

RESOLVED that Councillor McCarron-Holmes would assume the position of Chair for the meeting.

To receive apologies for absence.

Apologies were received from Councillors David Moore (Councillor Mike Mitchelson substituted), Mark Rudhall (Councillor Shirley Evans substituted), Cyril Weber, Matt Brereton and Beverley Morgan.

To receive declarations by Councillors of disclosable pecuniary interests, personal interests, other registrable interests or any other interests in respect of items on the agenda.

There were no Declarations of Interest received.

To consider whether the press and public should be excluded from the meeting during consideration of any items of business on the agenda.

RESOLVED that the press and public not be excluded for any items of business on this occasion.

To receive the minutes of the Joint Overview and Scrutiny Committee meeting held on 14 December 2023.

(Copy enclosed)

The Committee reviewed the minutes of the previous Joint Overview & Scrutiny (JOSC) meeting and a Member requested that the title heading for Adult Social Services be amended to include ‘Mental Health’ to highlight the focus of the topic.

RESOLVED that the minutes of the Joint Overview & Scrutiny Committee held on 14 December 2023 be agreed as a true and accurate record.

To note the draft minutes of the Joint Executive Committee meeting held on 25 January 2024.

(Copy enclosed)

The Committee reviewed the minutes of the Joint Executive Committee (JEC) meeting.

A Member asked if there were any updates regarding the dates for disaggregation delivery which the Director of Business Transformation and Change (Cumberland) noted would be covered under agenda item 7 but would be happy to supply any additional information upon request.

A Member requested additional information regarding the Social Work Academy to understand its structure which the Director of Business Transformation and Change (Cumberland) noted.

RESOLVED that the minutes of the Joint Executive Committee held on 25 January 2024 be noted and the Committees comments be noted and actioned accordingly.

To provide the Committee with an update report on Adult Services following the request for additional information at the 14 December 2023 meeting.

(Copy enclosed)

The Scrutiny Officer highlighted the report to the Committee, noting that it provided the answers to questions raised at the previous committee meeting which the officers had been unable to answer without further research.

A Member asked for clarification on the difference between Rural and Extra Rural which the Director of Business Transformation and Change (Cumberland) explained as relating to the distance from the closest urban area.

A Member requested confirmation as to what CAMHS T4 referred to, which the Director of Business Transformation and Change (Cumberland) commented regarded inpatient detention.

A Member asked for clarification on the link between the reduction in requests for MHA Assessments and lack of access to pubs during the pandemic regarding social isolation. The Director of Business Transformation and Change (Cumberland) clarified that there had been reduction in requests due to lower numbers of alcohol contributing to deterioration rather than social isolation, which is why there had been a reduction rather than an increase.

Members asked for further information regarding pattern for demand for social work and care in urban and rural areas outside of Mental Health issues which the Director of Business Transformation and Change (Cumberland) agreed to discuss with the relevant officers to provide the committee with a written response for the requested information.

RESOLVED that the update report be noted.

To receive an update from the Lead Officer regarding the timescales for proposed disaggregation of services and possible additions to the programme.

(Copy enclosed)

The Director of Business Transformation and Change provided the Committee with an overview of the report, highlighting the disaggregation which has been completed, is currently ongoing and those planned. It was also noted that some of the disaggregation had been completed ahead of the planned date, which was a testament to the hard work done by the relevant teams.

A Member asked why there was no disaggregation date for the Children’s Emergency Duty Team which the Programme Manager (Westmorland & Furness) explained as being due to initial discussions still taking place, though there was hope that there would be more clarity available for the next meeting.

A Member requested a definition of those services which are classes as “long-term hosted” which the Assistant Chief Executive (Westmorland & Furness) and Director of Business Transformation and Change explained as being services with no immediate plan to disaggregate. Services that, would either be impossible or highly unlikely to disaggregate, would potentially have an adverse impact or suffer a potential dip in being able to deliver the service should they disaggregate. It was also noted that all services would go through an annual review, but if there was no business case for justification of disaggregation then they would remain a long-term hosted service.

A Member asked for further information regarding digital innovation and customer experience and whether Children’s Services Integrations and Partnerships still existed as a service. The Director of Business Transformation and Change confirmed that Children's Services Integrations and Partnerships disaggregated on 31 December 2023 but still existed as a service for each council. Regarding digital innovation and customer experience, the Director of Business Transformation and Change explained that this was part of the council which dealt with automation of processes and functions, the website and digital access for services.

A Member queried whether work was being done on business cases for areas such as children’s care, adoption, fostering and edge of care taking into account their performance and emerging needs. They also asked if JOSC would see the annual reviews which were scheduled to take place. The Director of Business Transformation and Change and Assistant Chief Executive (Westmorland & Furness) confirmed that all services would be reviewed appropriately, annually, with the first review due to start in April/May and would be coming to future JOSC meetings when appropriate.

RESOLVED that,

a)    The update on progress of the disaggregation of hosted services provided in the report be noted.

b)    Any proposed amendments to the disaggregation programme to the Joint Executive Committee be referred for consideration.

To review the review process for long-term hosted services and the consideration given as to whether disaggregation is required.

(Copy enclosed)

The Assistant Chief Executive (Westmorland & Furness) provided the Committee with an overview of the report, highlighting that it was based on the indicators, which had been shown to the Committee at a previous meeting, to show how the long-term disaggregation process was performing. It was noted that the officers were looking for comments and feedback on the performance to present to the JEC.

Members thanked the Assistant Chief Executive (Westmorland & Furness) and the other officers for the information provided within the report.

A Member asked for clarification around the direction of the direction of travel arrow and RAG rating for point A8wf. The Assistant Chief Executive (Westmorland & Furness) explained that the RAG rating was green because it was a positive change and the arrow was pointed down because it was indicating that the risk was going down.

A Member asked for further information regarding the difference between Cumberland and Westmorland and Furness percentages for gigabit capable broadband coverage. The Assistant Chief Executive (Westmorland & Furness) noted that the reason for disparity is due to Westmorland and Furness starting with poorer provision of infrastructure compared to Cumberland, with Eden one of the most poorly served, so they received more help to improve at the start of Connecting Cumbria.

Members had a discussion around the use telephone poles rather than underground cables for improving connectivity throughout Cumbria, the work being conducted by Fibrus and whether the number of properties with superfast broadband coverage noted within the report was accurate and whether it included both commercial properties and households. The Assistant Chief Executive (Westmorland & Furness) and Director of Place, Sustainable Growth and Transport (Cumberland) both explained that the work being done was through specialists working with a government contract, so the two Councils were only primarily aware of the work being done through permits. Although it was acknowledged that Highways Management had already been required to issue fines to Fibrus. Both acknowledged that more information would be required for the Members’ queries to be addressed sufficiently and would provide the Committee with the additional information by the next Committee meeting.

A Member queried the variation between the two authorities on the number of children trained through Active Travel which the Assistant Chief Executive (Westmorland & Furness) explained as being based on the percentage of children in the population and the number of schools engaged.

A Member queried the difference between the number of Emergency Key Plans for Cumberland and Westmorland and Furness. The Assistant Chief Executive (Westmorland & Furness) explained that the key plans refer to the assets within the local areas, with Cumberland having more plans for nuclear, and noted that a full list could be provided.

A Member asked if key plans for risks included aircraft accidents. The Assistant Chief Executive (Westmorland & Furness) noted that they would check with the relevant officers but that assessments on the impact and likelihood of events are conducted to include instances such as pandemics, climate change and cyber-attacks.

A Member inquired about edge of care arrangements and  ...  view the full minutes text for item 25.

To receive a report on the Stronger Local Resilience Forum (LRF) Pilot Programme.

The Assistant Chief Executive (Westmorland & Furness) provided the committee with an overview of the report, highlighting that Cumbria are only one of eight Local Resilience Forum (LRF) pilot areas chosen with the pilot taking place over the Cumbria footprint and aiming to develop a resilience communication programme to help with prevention and improve preparedness for the area. It was also noted that another aim was to improve engagement across all partners and communities, not just the local authorities.

A Member queried the six month timeline within the report and if there was a Plan B for the funding. The Assistant Chief Executive (Westmorland & Furness) explained that there was no revised timeline provided beyond the initial December deadline and that without the funding there would be no pilot.

Members had a discussion regarding improving the distribution and sharing of information to cascade down from local authorities and relevant partners to parish councils and residents. The Assistant Chief Executive (Westmorland & Furness) thanked the Committee for their comments and agreed that better co-ordination between different partners was needed to allow for a more efficient information sharing system, with up-to-date records, contact information and data to be available. All of which would help improve understanding of communities and engagement.

A Member noted the previous issues that had occurred throughout Cumbria from previous storms and floods with internet failures and connection issues. The Assistant Chief Executive (Westmorland & Furness) noted those comments and agreed that a more efficient network would need to be created to include all those working on the ground, such as parish councils, to help when there are issues such as power outages.

RESOLVED that the information within the report regarding the Stronger LRF Pilot in Cumbria be reviewed and noted.

To receive a progress update on all of the short and long-term hosting arrangements in Waste and how the hosted services are operating/performing.

(Copy enclosed)

The Assistant Director of Climate and Waste (Cumberland) provided the committee with an overview of the report, highlighting the five key areas of Governance, Information Sharing, the Waste Inter-Authority Agreement (WIAA) Review, the WIAA Budget and National Policy. It was also noted that, should the Members wish to have a further report on a specific area, the Assistant Director of Climate and Waste would be happy to provide it.

A Member asked if, as the current contract with Renewi was signed until 2034, it would be a difficult process to change the contract regarding the changes to National policy. The Assistant Director of Climate and Waste (Cumberland) explained that special dispensation has been given to Cumberland and Westmorland & Furness as part of a transitional agreement due to recognition that National policy changes would have on the contract. With the Assistant Director of Climate and Waste (Cumberland) noting that while New Burdens Funding would be available for Food Waste, this only covers collection and not disposal, which would be a costly addition to the current contract. However, both Councils will only decide their preference once they have considered the pros and cons of making changes to collections with the contract in mind.

Members had a discussion regarding recycling within Cumbria, looking at where recycling rates currently are and where the WIAA would like to see them in the future and potential changes in the future. The Assistant Director of Climate and Waste (Cumberland) explained that Cumbria was currently at 48% recycling, which is mid-table for local authorities and reflected an average across all recycling sites in Cumbria, with work being done to maximise recycling and reduce waste. It was noted that the changes from government, through the ‘Simpler Recycling’ project, helped to simplify the recycling process with reduction of how many bins were required for each household and gave authorities the power to decide how to divide the recycling. Both the Assistant Director of Climate and Waste (Cumberland) and Director of Thriving Places (Westmorland & Furness) commented that both councils were looking to review and harmonise the waste services, to build one service for Cumbria which will be consistent for residents with the hope that there will be an update that could be provided later this year.

A Member asked about the impact of the inclusion of low-grade plastic packaging and whether other authorities were recycling that packaging. The Assistant Director of Climate and Waste (Cumberland) explained that the ‘Simpler Recycling’ project included flexible plastic such as cling film but that it would be dependent on the contract and plant about whether it would be possible, with trials ongoing with emerging technologies to help improve the process. Regarding other councils, it was noted that each council would be participating in different things, depending on their own contracts.

A Member queried if Cumberland and Westmorland & Furness would remain in contact regarding waste which the Assistant Director of Climate and Waste (Cumberland) assured the Committee that the two councils worked closely together and would  ...  view the full minutes text for item 27.

To review the integration of LEP activities to Local Authorities for Cumberland and Westmorland & Furness.

(Copy enclosed)

The Director of Place, Sustainable Growth and Transport (Cumberland) provided the Committee with an overview of the report, highlighting the creation of the Economic Growth Board, the programme of integration and what the future will look like including the next steps in the process through the JEC to further provide governance.

A Member asked about the remaining funding for Local Enterprise Partnership (LEP) and the timeline for providing the government with the required strategies. The Director of Place, Sustainable Growth and Transport (Cumberland) noted that, while the LEP do have some reserves, the requirements for the funding are being examined and the funding procured through grants has been allocated accordingly. Regarding the strategy, the government requirement is to provide something within six months, which the Director of Place, Sustainable Growth and Transport (Cumberland) highlighted would be possible as they are building upon the existing LEP strategy rather than starting from scratch.

A Member enquired whether the existing staff would be transferred under the Transfer of Undertakings Protection of Employment rights (TUPE) to Cumberland, which the Chief Legal Officer and Monitoring Officer (Westmorland & Furness) confirmed.

A Member queried whether there would only be one economic growth plan produced on a Cumbria footprint or whether there would also be one for each council area. The Director of Place, Sustainable Growth and Transport (Cumberland) and Director of Thriving Places (Westmorland & Furness) confirmed that while the government does demand that every function area (Cumbria) has an economic growth plan, each Council will also produce a plan which will highlight nuances for each local area and compliment and feed into the Cumbria wide plan.

A Member asked how many employees would be transferred to Cumberland, where those employees would operate from and whether the operational costs had been included within the March 2024 budget. The Director of Place, Sustainable Growth and Transport (Cumberland) explained that 17 employees were transferring and that they would remain working out of their current office building. It was also noted that there would be no additional cost to Cumberland regarding the integration of LEP activities and any costs transferred had been included within the budget.

Members had a discussion regarding the transition of functions with it being highlighted by the Director of Place, Sustainable Growth and Transport (Cumberland) that while it would be challenging, the focus would be on maintaining and enhancing relationships with businesses and partners and

winding up current projects correctly once arrangements are finalised.

A Member asked for confirmation that the JOSC would be scrutinising delivery plan, which the Chief Legal Officer and Monitoring Officer (Westmorland & Furness) confirmed.

RESOLVED that the report regarding the activity to integrate LEP activities to Local Authorities for Cumberland and Westmorland and Furness Councils and comments made by the JOSC on those activities be noted.

The Scrutiny Officer to provide an update on outstanding recommendations and present the 2023/24 Joint Scrutiny for Hosted Services Work Programme.

(Copy enclosed)

The Democratic Services Officer (Scrutiny) provided the Committee with an overview of the Scrutiny Officer Update and the current Work Programme before inviting Members to ask any questions or propose any amendments.

A Member asked if an additional item could be added to receive an update on the LEP arrangements which the Committee agreed to add to the Work Programme for the next meeting.

A Member asked for clarification as to the venue of the next JOSC meeting in April, which was noted as Cumbria House, and queried when the JOSC would return to Westmorland & Furness. The Scrutiny Officer explained that, once each council had agreed their 2024/25 calendar of meetings at their Annual General Meetings in May, the next JOSC would be in Westmorland & Furness.

RESOLVED that,

a)    The items on the most recent Forward Plan of Key Decisions be noted.

b)    The progress on resolutions from previous meetings be noted.

c)    Any changes to the work programme for 2023/24 be agreed and noted.

d)    The information presented within the report in relation to the development of the Committee’s work programme and comment on the work programme, in particular on items for the next Committee meeting, be noted.

To note that the next Joint Overview and Scrutiny Meeting will be held on Friday 19 April 2024 at 10:30am.

RESOLVED that the next JOSC meeting be held on Friday 19 April 2024 at 10:30am in Cumbria House, Carlisle.